tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21602861.post4710435247560443881..comments2023-10-17T12:05:26.540+01:00Comments on Razor-blade of Life: An argument against plastic bags. Especially free ones.Zhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00822383355869390919noreply@blogger.comBlogger28125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21602861.post-2324580140042711882009-12-06T18:55:58.389+00:002009-12-06T18:55:58.389+00:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21602861.post-15498357508357560212009-12-02T00:25:43.481+00:002009-12-02T00:25:43.481+00:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21602861.post-28388250908008594702008-11-10T16:15:00.000+00:002008-11-10T16:15:00.000+00:00People should read this.People should read this.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21602861.post-33570825523740966922008-03-01T02:08:00.000+00:002008-03-01T02:08:00.000+00:00Thanks for addressing this issue. For many years I...Thanks for addressing this issue. For many years I have been refusing plastic bags for an item or two that I can easily carry out to the car and I joke that I am saving little plastic men! In some areas of the country, some stores have bins where you can put used plastic bags to be recycled and we did that before moving to this state where they don't. So, we save them and donate them to our library(where they offer them for carrying your books out) and to Thrift stores. Doing away with them all together and using reusable conveyances is, of course, preferrable. I also decided I would do something about all the paper bags we had saved up and kept them in the trunk of my car. Alas and alack, I would seldom remember to take them into the store with me. After reading your post and all the comments I will be rolling out the cart to my car sans any bags, if caught forgetting again. Every bit helps. Thanks for posting on this subject.luckyzmomhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04176703683321469118noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21602861.post-39348060261374101022008-02-28T09:29:00.000+00:002008-02-28T09:29:00.000+00:00I completely agree, Ivy, and once we've all put ou...I completely agree, Ivy, and once we've all put ourselves to a certain amount of inconvenience to eschew plastic bags, we'll be on high moral ground to press the manufacturers further. I wrote about bags because I'd got Al's facts to hand and because, most of the time, it's so easy to change the habit of using them.Zhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00822383355869390919noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21602861.post-18890154889591836352008-02-28T07:10:00.000+00:002008-02-28T07:10:00.000+00:00It`s ok for us to all give up plastic and carrier ...It`s ok for us to all give up plastic and carrier bags - which I`m trying to do..... but, as I wrote in a blog post the other day.... what about all the plastic shrink wrapping manufacturers use instead of using the good old cardboard box! Surely they should be encouraged to go back to using that type of packaging.Ivyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09984981877936138387noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21602861.post-5299770685808435422008-02-27T23:44:00.000+00:002008-02-27T23:44:00.000+00:00Good point, Honey. I could suggest carrying a cou...Good point, Honey. I could suggest carrying a couple of tissues and a sheet of newspaper, but frankly, like you, I'd use a plastic bag. But a small one, not a carrier bag. Unless you have a very big dog, of course...Zhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00822383355869390919noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21602861.post-91684711182486935592008-02-27T22:47:00.000+00:002008-02-27T22:47:00.000+00:00most big supermarkets here in Belgium have a ban, ...most big supermarkets here in Belgium have a ban, so yes we have shoppers in the back of the car, mini rolled up bags in our hand bags and if you are stuck there is always a sturdy alternative to buy at the shop. I like it, just when I'm looking after the dog every now and then... dog poop.. I need bags for that right? Whats the alternative, and no I'm not leaving it on the street, or putting a nappy on him!<BR/>xHoneyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15662439151558495496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21602861.post-51182959796220087862008-02-26T22:58:00.000+00:002008-02-26T22:58:00.000+00:00Blue Witch, in her post, made it clear that she ta...Blue Witch, in her post, made it clear that she takes her own bags when shopping; it's that she thinks that putting the onus on us rather than supermarkets is missing the point. We're not disagreeing about the principle, only the detail. <BR/><BR/>I think you've got it right, bartender. I happen to be playing some of your music Right Now, by the way. And I've also bought CDs and will buy more. thanks for the introduction.Zhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00822383355869390919noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21602861.post-44417566308998643002008-02-26T22:51:00.000+00:002008-02-26T22:51:00.000+00:00I can't help but feel that the crux of many people...I can't help but feel that the crux of many people's argument is the convenience issue. And if you aren't willing to even try, then you shouldn't bother with the argument at all. It's just that you aren't willing. <BR/>I also don't buy the whole "now the store is just saving more on the plastic bags and soaking you for the cloth ones" argument. I have cloth bags that I bought from the grocer's (for a dollar each). I can't possibly fill more than four or five of these, even on a major shopping trip, so as long as I remember them, I will never have to buy any more. They have held up well. I just leave them in the car and use them at every store. If we all wait around for corporations to start reducing their waste before we agree to reduce ours, what are we accomplishing? I agree that everything is over-packaged, but I don't agree that we shouldn't each do what we can just because the big guys aren't taking the lead.heybartenderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09916319179509954795noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21602861.post-86626796900648117852008-02-26T22:40:00.000+00:002008-02-26T22:40:00.000+00:00Like Blue Witch, we compost everything possible, a...Like Blue Witch, we compost everything possible, and the dog and the chickens also eat leftovers.<BR/><BR/>The balance between locally-grown out-of-season veg and imported shipped freight is hard to call, but I tend to not worry too much if it's shipped rather than air-freighted. Not sure about the fresh spinach. It was tasty though.Zhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00822383355869390919noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21602861.post-4686203414331411472008-02-26T22:34:00.000+00:002008-02-26T22:34:00.000+00:00Also, if one composts, then that significantly red...Also, if one composts, then that significantly reduces the amount of messiness in the trash cans.<BR/><BR/>When we have to choose between local and organic, we choose local. In general, the fuel miles really kill any positive points you might get otherwise. <BR/><BR/>Another point: ship fuel is *incredibly* efficient, so anything that travels by ship is way better than anything that travels (mostly) by truck. I recall reading an article somewhere (I can try to track it down) that in England, it is better to eat NZ lamb than Irish (?) lamb. This is because of the fuel issue, as well as the fact that the "more local" lamb was raised in huge pens (a la US factory farm), unlike the NZ, more free-range, lamb.<BR/><BR/>What this all boils down to is: Z, drink your Australian wine and feel no compunction about it!<BR/><BR/>*raises a glass*<BR/>Prosit!Imperatrixhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11748228447190366632noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21602861.post-66821452709295327802008-02-26T22:20:00.000+00:002008-02-26T22:20:00.000+00:00Three legged cat, I didn't mean to leave you out -...Three legged cat, I didn't mean to leave you out - I share your quandary. Mostly, I buy local stuff, but I ate a tomato from the Canaries today, and some sweet potato and a banana yesterday. Tonight's spinach was Italian. On the other hand, the leek, potato, carrot and onion were local. I enjoy the varied diet that modern life brings me (the wine was Australian, BTW, which was worst of all), while knowing that I fall short of what I could do at every step. <BR/><BR/>I'm not judging and I'm not preaching - I'm only wanting to ask people to think about what they choose to do.Zhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00822383355869390919noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21602861.post-25572372942386343332008-02-26T22:13:00.000+00:002008-02-26T22:13:00.000+00:00Thanks, Jamie - we all need to do our best and acc...Thanks, Jamie - we all need to do our best and accept that nobody's perfect...not even me (!)<BR/><BR/>BW, I'm not disagreeing about overpackaging, but I have bags that can perfectly well deal with walking home in the rain. I've done it plenty of times. I have seen plenty of people load their cars with a dozen or more plastic bags, when they could well keep a couple of cardboard boxes in the cars and load their trolleys straight into them. DG made the point that he was caught out without any bags, which is fair enough, but he also said that he is not prepared to carry bags during the day to go shopping on the way home. <BR/><BR/>Monoz, one young woman had quite a sparky purple three-wheeler trolley, which I rather admired. The old ladies have Sholleys (sp?). which are splendid and have a pocket for a purse.<BR/><BR/>Bin liners. Al is awfully anti-plastic, nowadays. I'll ask him. We have wheely-bins and I bung everything in and close the lid. I don't use bin-liners any more. I wash out the bins when they need it. And wrap the messy stuff in newspaper.Zhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00822383355869390919noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21602861.post-7591176398020908672008-02-26T20:59:00.000+00:002008-02-26T20:59:00.000+00:00Well, shopping trolleys are very much associated w...Well, shopping trolleys are very much associated with old ladies still. Although I do see some modern people with them sometimes. Obviously, they're only relevant to this debate if you're doing your shopping on foot, which most people aren't.<BR/><BR/>I think re-using the bags we've got is a good starting point, and also, I wonder does Al know anything about bin-liners? What's the eco-position on these?Monozygotehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04965915993980593549noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21602861.post-92194092530391587802008-02-26T20:08:00.000+00:002008-02-26T20:08:00.000+00:00It seems to me that the biggest problem is that ju...It seems to me that the biggest problem is that just about everything is overpackaged - such as the tins and jars I seem to keep seeing with an outer coating of shrinkwrapped plastic. (Why???) Of course some of that excess packaging could be reduced if people are prepared to make a little bit of effort to take shopping bags with them.<BR/><BR/>If I'm going shopping on foot I much prefer to take my unattractive fabric shopping bags with me - plastic ones invariably seem to split and deposit half my shopping on the pavement!<BR/><BR/>The trouble is there doesn't seem to be a "right" choice: do I buy the locally produced fruit and veg that my local supermarket now stocks (even though it is all pre-packed into plastic bags), or do I support my friendly local greengrocer, who thinks I'm mad, but lets me fill a basket (and then shopping bag) with loose veg and fruit, bypassing his convenient little plastic bags? The trouble is, at this time of year all the food at local greengrocer is from the opposite side of the planet. So which is better/worse? Do I reduce my consumption of packaging or of food miles?Lois (three-legged-cat)https://www.blogger.com/profile/12678081529440242681noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21602861.post-46070393760873880792008-02-26T19:41:00.000+00:002008-02-26T19:41:00.000+00:00The supermarket/plastic bag issue is a smokescreen...The supermarket/plastic bag issue is a smokescreen to deflect consumers' attention from where it ought to be - on the supermarkets for over-packaging things. Now reducing THAT sort of waste would be a hige step forward, and would make a real difference, without inconveniencing people. <BR/><BR/>If you live in a city and have to walk home carting shopping (as DG does) you need soething substantial (which doesn't fit easily into a city-dwellers' pcoket), or if it's raining, things get wet in paper or cloth. Some things (eg packs of paper, other goods that would be spoiled by water) really do need protection. Those of us with cars/cycle panniers don't, I think, appreciate how hard shopping without bags it is for town-dwellers who don't carry rucksacks etc.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21602861.post-131705508662369702008-02-26T19:16:00.000+00:002008-02-26T19:16:00.000+00:00Hello Z...i appreciate the time and effort that yo...Hello Z...i appreciate the time and effort that you took to post this. I try to use my cloth bags every time i shop, though i am guilty of forgetting them i do make the effort. My grocery store pays me a few cents for each bag (cloth) that i use, which helps to pay for the bags themselves. Well worth it...i hope more people catch on.<BR/><BR/>Again, thank you for this post!jAMiEhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18258005780393500502noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21602861.post-26221872924494958352008-02-26T16:41:00.000+00:002008-02-26T16:41:00.000+00:00I recommend the home-made quince jelly.I recommend the home-made quince jelly.Zhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00822383355869390919noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21602861.post-72658061657304503052008-02-26T16:21:00.000+00:002008-02-26T16:21:00.000+00:00Oh, and: fresh yogurt would be delish, Z. If you h...Oh, and: fresh yogurt would be delish, Z. If you happen to have a spoonful of jam I could stir in, I'd be set.Imperatrixhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11748228447190366632noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21602861.post-86794236718074827252008-02-26T16:20:00.000+00:002008-02-26T16:20:00.000+00:00Paper bags are actually just as environmentally ba...Paper bags are actually just as environmentally bad as plastic bags. They're made from virgin growth.<BR/><BR/>Here's one of many places that discuss this:<BR/>http://tinyurl.com/28j5bq<BR/><BR/>Also, here we get 5 cents (probably similar to the 1 p mentioned) per bag that we bring. We shop once a week for a family of 4 big eaters. We use about 5 bags per visit. Now, I don't know about how far 5 p would take one in the UK, but 25 cents here barely covers a call at a phone booth! (candy bars cost 65-75 cents, bottled water/soda costs 1.25, etc.)<BR/><BR/>That's not much of an incentive, even for the poor.Imperatrixhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11748228447190366632noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21602861.post-46483226700096442582008-02-26T16:04:00.000+00:002008-02-26T16:04:00.000+00:00The comment with the link was after my comment, so...The comment with the link was after my comment, so I hadn't seen it. I trust you appreciate me, darling, I had to go to DG, then comments, then click on your link, then copy that. <BR/><BR/>I'm not keen on overuse of paper bags either. It's all waste. If one really thinks whether a bag is needed and only uses one if absolutely necessary, a huge amount of waste would be eliminated. Sadly, most people don't think, and they don't care what resources are used as long as they salve their conscience with recycling something.Zhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00822383355869390919noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21602861.post-22172860103574945722008-02-26T15:37:00.000+00:002008-02-26T15:37:00.000+00:00My links (and the one to the 'Myths' article I men...My links (and the one to the 'Myths' article I mentioned before in my 19th December 2007 post) are in DG's comments.<BR/><BR/>It would be <I>very</I> hard to find a more environmentally aware and active person than me, who is constantly picking other people up on wastefulness, but I still stand by my previous points.<BR/><BR/>I think there has to be a balance on bags - personally I'd like to see the problem dealt with by supermarkets offering a choice: plastic or paper, or 1p off every pound you spend on shopping if you used your shopping if you used your own bags (Sainsbury's used to offer 1p back but stopped it).Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21602861.post-40887614549458729282008-02-26T14:48:00.000+00:002008-02-26T14:48:00.000+00:00Conservative with a big and small c, I suppose. W...Conservative with a big and small c, I suppose. Well, if they get in next time, Cameron is always promoting himself as a big ecologist, it'll be interesting to see if he means it.Zhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00822383355869390919noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21602861.post-58798145421823967252008-02-26T14:43:00.000+00:002008-02-26T14:43:00.000+00:00Nice article.I've been a long proponent of a stand...Nice article.<BR/><BR/>I've been a long proponent of a standard charge on plastic bags. I remember nagging our MP about it at a BBQ a few years ago. Didn't do much good, he was a conservative... Its a simple solution to change behavior, and if the supermarkets improve their margins a bit, its a small small price to pay. Maybe they'll pass a tiny bit on to farmers...The Boyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06052411992134880131noreply@blogger.com